Glowing balls in the sky

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dino
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Post by dino »

joe wrote:Dino,

This is not a UFO website where people swap stories about unexplained objects observed in the sky. You are not the first person to come here with an amazing sighting. All have come to nothing. If you manage to record some footage of these objects then one or two people here might be interested but most won't be holding their breath.

I don't wish to be disrespectful but perhaps you might get more of response somewhere else for this sort of thing.
I did not think it was a ufo site joe But it is a site where people are interested in astronomy & because ufos & aliens come from space outside our own i thought others may be interested here but sadly it seems thats not the case.

Anyway keep your eyes peeled & less so glued to your telescope & you may become more interested in the subject of whats really out there, happy hunting, i do not want to seem disrespectful but ignorance is bliss & i expected a better response
joe
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Post by joe »

dino wrote: i expected a better response
As I said, you may get a response more to your liking elsewhere.
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mike a feist
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Post by mike a feist »

I did not think it was a ufo site joe But it is a site where people are interested in astronomy & because ufos & aliens come from space outside our own i thought others may be interested here but sadly it seems thats not the case. Anyway keep your eyes peeled & less so glued to your telescope & you may become more interested in the subject of whats really out there, happy hunting, i do not want to seem disrespectful but ignorance is bliss & i expected a better response.
I feel that I need to comment on this this quote but cannot think exacty how to do so, not wishing to cause offence. Less said the better really. maf
David Frydman
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Post by David Frydman »

Mike,
I have similar views to yours on this.
Just to say this is an astronomy forum for astronomers.

Still cloudy here,cold and dull.

Regards, David
joe
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Post by joe »

I applaud your restraint, Mike. As you know, people often come here with strange, unexplainable sightings to report. Discussions often begin politely but eventually break down as the original poster reveals his bizarre leap from lights in the sky to alien invasion. Steven Spielberg has a lot to answer for.
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stella
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Post by stella »

"Just to say this is an astronomy forum for astronomers. "

I regard that statement as elitist.

We should be much more all-embracing in our approach.
David Frydman
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Post by David Frydman »

Perhaps you are right Stella,and I take your point, but how do we explain to convinced ufologists that they are not providing evidence in any scientific or even quasiscientific manner.
The most basic measure has to be size of an object seen in metres or whatever linear measure.
If it is beyond several hundred metres distant from the observer and there is no comparison of a sized object at a proven similar distance, then by eyes alone how can you measure its linear size?
I have had this discussion many times with pilots on commercial airliners, when I often was allowed or invited into the cockpit. These expert witnesses often thought they could judge linear sizes until I explained this was almost impossible without a reference object.
This was brought home to me when I was in a Trident aircraft coming in from Finland to England entering the Thames estuary at about 25,000 feet.
The pilots could not understand how I could not make out the scale of the vista in front of me and how I could not recognise the places in front of me.
It took me one or two minutes before I realised the scale and could identify the towns in front of me in very clear conditions, and this was because of the movement of the aircraft then at probably a ground speed of around 400 mph. I could then understand what I was seeing, even though I was very familiar with the 'map' in front of me from the ground.
This was the first time I had been in the cockpit of an aircraft on this approach at a great height and a very long slant distance.
This was a completely unfamiliar scene to me.
On another occasion I was asked to stay in the cockpit of a 757 on its landing at Heathrow. This was probably one of the best experiences in my life.
I was sitting in the jump seat at the left rear of the cockpit and the captain in front in the left seat and the first officer making the hands on landing in the right seat.
After landing in an amazingly short distance I said 'I noticed the first officer did not correct the positioning of the aircraft and just let the aircraft drift to one side as it came down apparently well off the centre line'.
The captain said 'No that was an excellent landing on the centre line.
What had confused me is that being well above the ground and well to the left in the cockpit my view apparently made it look as if the aircraft was well off the centre line, when it was really almost dead centre,
So it takes practice to See properly especially in an unfamiliar situation.
What we see or think we see is often not how it actually is.

The statements given in this thread above show a complete lack of understanding of size.
And if expert witnesses sometimes have trouble with this, it is very understandable that someone who has not studied linear and angular measures will be completely fooled by what they see or think they see.
They may truly believe that an object is twenty miles across even though an astronomer will know this cannot be.
One has to know the distance to the object and its angular size to know its linear size. It could also be inferred if the observer is moving considerably with respect to a known stationary object.
I was not aware of these ufology sites, but reading some of the posts there I am completely astounded by how many followers this religion has.
It really shows, I think, how poor the science education is in our schools.
Very basic knowledge seems to be completely lacking in these observers and is replaced by imagination and emotion.
I think that better science education in schools is needed.

Regards, David
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Post by David Webb »

I have just read the last few posts on this, I have to say Stella is like myself in that if you view the sky and you feel you would like to tell another person if you require advice it is only right you should be allowed to ask.
I know Joe has strong views on this subject like a lot more, but if I was keen on spotting trains and I see a train going from K Cross to Leeds and I had never seen that type I cannot say it was not there, it would be a lie.
I have worked at MOD as a professional Plane spotter, I won awards for my work with a 98% correct record in my observing planes from 23 Countries with only a 20 second glance of plane to go on.
People are seeing things in the sky they have not seen before, I could tell you what the type they are seeing, sadly I cannot under the O S A.
This forum is a nice forum, I love it like lots more, but it's not busy enough to upset it's few active users it has got, the whole world sadly does lack respect for others views, it is sad but true, please try to be understandable in all aspects of your life to others, it does make life a lot better.
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joe
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Post by joe »

No one has suggested that people should not be allowed to ask advice or report a sighting. I've been moderating this forum for about ten years and there have been countless posts from people wanting to discuss strange things they have seen in the sky. ALL OF THEM have been welcomed and discussed by members. Most have resulted in happy people realising they have spotted a very bright Venus or a satellite or even chinese lanterns.

This is an old thread from 2010 that has been resurrected. If you go back more than a few posts you will see that Dino has had many replies offering possible explanations. David Frydman is the author of many of them so he cannot be accused of discouraging participation.

He also states, correctly, that there needs to be proper evidence and corroboration for these sightings to be taken seriously. There is none. Getting an animator to reproduce the sightings means nothing.

No one is saying that Dino did not see or experience the things he describes, it's just the conclusions he jumps to that I, and others, have issues with. Just because there is no satisfactoy explanation it does not mean that they are alien spacecraft.

Further discussion is often a complete waste of time in cases like this because the OP usually has no intention of listening. I am trying to point out to Dino that this may not be the best place for his observations - unless he remains scientific in his explanations.
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joe
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Post by joe »

David Webb wrote: I know Joe has strong views on this subject like a lot more,
I am replying as a forum moderator. I have been asked to keep the discussions on topic and ensure that they have some relationship to astronomy. Pseudo science and science fiction is not encouraged.
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dino
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Re: Glowing balls in the sky

Post by dino »

For those that may be interested, im totally none religious , i do see ufos as space related.

Iv got an excellent sense of perspective , im not interested in the slightest in pseudo science or sci fi & only seek the truth about what iv seen & experienced.

Before my first sighting & close encounter i had absolutely zero interest in such things.

I Do feel sad when what iv seen is ridiculed or put down & i expect that to a certain extent because of the bizarre nature of it all.

I Dont go around trying to convince everyone on the planet what i seen was real events & this is the only site & forum on astronomy i ever posted on.

Anyway thank you all for listening at least,and i hope some here found what iv witnessed as interesting as i find it, i just wanted to share what i consider to be something Very special with the nice people here.

Time will hopefully reveal that iv been sincere & honest & far from delusional about everything iv mentioned on my site , maybe even congratulated for my details should we all get to see them for real one day.
Mogget
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Re: Glowing balls in the sky

Post by Mogget »

Perhaps you are right Stella,and I take your point, but how do we explain to convinced ufologists that they are not providing evidence in any scientific or even quasiscientific manner.
David,

You are assuming here that all "ufologists" are the same. They are not. I agree that a large number tend to get over excited about anything that they see that seems to be unidentified, but there are many people interested in the subject that do approach it from a scientific standpoint. You can't simply dismiss all reports as hoaxes or misidentifications of known objects. I personally feel that there is a very small "core" of sightings and reports that can't be easily explained. This does not mean that I automatically think that they are alien spacecraft, but I do believe that there is a phenomenon to be investigated.
David Frydman
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Re: Glowing balls in the sky

Post by David Frydman »

Dear Mogget,
I agree partly, but I have also met or talked directly with scientifically trained people. who seem to become anything but scientific when discussing UFOs.
They seem to have strong beliefs in alien visits despite at least to me no evidence or quasi scientific evidence.
A human being can have scientific training, but still have an emotional side that leads them astray in this respect.
There are several things going on here.
Folks with little or no scientific training who believe in UFOS.
Ditto who don't believe in UFOS.
Scientifically trained folk who do or don't believe in UFOS.

Others who are open minded.
Many amateur astronomers with a lot of observational experience are like this.
I had never really appreciated how there is a vast core of dedicated Ufologists who seem to totally reject any view that their so called sightings are not alien visits.

Yes, unknown sightings should be investigated but by persons well grounded in science or even forensics.
But even here each person can go off track despite best intentions.
I have talked to medical doctors, pilots, policemen and all sort of folk who seem to live in an imaginary world.

It is very much like trying to discuss religion or love or even politics.
People have strong views not all of them rational.

Regards, David
David Frydman
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Re: Glowing balls in the sky

Post by David Frydman »

Dear Mogget,
I am not assuming all ufologists are the same.
Every person is an individual with different feelings and ideas.
As you can see if you look at my posts, whenever someone reports an unknown sighting I try to help find out what it might be.
I take each sighting seriously until I come across some which are so out of touch with reality that no amount of discussion can make sense of what in my opinion is just not factual.
And I draw on my own observations.
David Webb mentions his experience as a plane spotter etc.
In the past I lectured to the CCF on aircraft recognition and my own scoring was similar to his except we had 5 seconds to identify an unknown aircraft not 20 seconds, which in my opinion is excessively long.
I have probably made over 200,000 aircraft observations. Nowadays it is just a casual thing and I am well out of touch.
Besides this I observe the sky at every oportunity.
Some of the very best astronomical observers report freely when they see something completely unexplainable to them, sometimes an explanation is easy sometimes not.
I am open minded even about aliens, but I have not seen or read of any instance where alien visits have occured.
Where are all these aliens?
We indeed may be aliens ourselves but who cares if in the long distant past we came from somewhere else.
We all came from material formed somewhere in the universe.
The reason I call the reports I have recently seen on ufology sites as part of a religion, is that the comments most make just relates to a belief in aliens constantly visiting us.
Again this seems to me and in my opinion to resemble a religion or cult.
And then you get the astrologers that vast numbers believe. It is possible more than half of the human race believes in astrology.
As long as they do no harm, fine, but they are alien to me.
If it helps these folk to make sense of the chaos around us, O.K.
I don't believe in astrology and I won't comment on the astrologers who peddle their stuff.
It is probably highly rewarding in monetary terms.
I wonder if in the employment office there is a category of jobs for astrologers or indeed ufologists?
I wonder what the pay is like?
Do you need a degree in ufology?

Regards, David
David Frydman
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Re: Glowing balls in the sky

Post by David Frydman »

Just looked on Directgov for a job within 75 plus miles. The widest area given. Normally it is 15 miles. That still means getting up early in the morning. Not so sure that would be suitable after a hard weekend partying.

The reply.
'astrologer has not been understood.Try typing in a different job title'
So I typed in ufologist and got the same reply.

Mmm. Not as easy to get a job as I thought.
Perhaps I need to try an independent commercial job placement agency.

Regards, David
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