Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

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Cliff
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Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by Cliff »

Dear al(L)
Part 1.
TV often provides subtlae propoganda about climate change and related things such as atmospheric emissions.
And rightly too in my opinion BUT more openess is needed TOO !?!.
eg a recent BBC TV "Breakfast"snippet praised a company reducing emissions and material waste by renovating old shopping trolleys rather than manufacturing completely brand new trolleys.
I commend the company's effort, these days but cann't help thinking the company has seen a marketing opportunity but also wonder if its environomental concerns are more serious than its bonus of favourable environmentally favourable advertisiong.
Although perhaps more tedious and arguably medically unpleasant knackered trolleys could be dismantled by hand rather than power tools used as seen in TV shots showing the background.
However, I was being facetiously pedantic since I enjoy myself wasting energy Telly Watching regularly sat in front of our warm gas fire - wasting energy is perhaps one of mypleasures in life particularly in winter.
Although i'm not happy to pay excessive fuel and carbon taxes supposedly related to paying for environmentally friendly enrgy production because I production because I'm sure a good percentage of what I pay will go towards making some faceless unknown very rich.
Furthermore we might be paying even more because we buy such things as wind turbines manufactured abroad which helps our government achieve making CO2 reductions promised to be made over the next few\for ever years.
I can only ask - despite global warming getting ever worse what is really being achieved to stop global warming- I understand Britain is responsible for 2 % of the World's problematic emissions and eve if we hit our supposed targets we will only knock the world's emissions down by 1%.
Best wishes from Cliff
Cliff
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Climate Change - Global Warming CC-CG PART 2

Post by Cliff »

Dear al(L)
Part 2
According to "New Scientist" magazine (15th December) - 'Another wasted Year', the IPCCC (or whatever it is ?
I-international, P-policy, C-committee, C-climate, C-change I think !) has been meeting now for 18 years.
I was pleased to read that if only to confirm how long these issues have been officially continuously waffled about .And I say that believe it or not having some small interest about climate change myself (as I've said before) since 1953 when I became aware Europe's Alpine glaciers were receding.
However, it seems the Climate Change bandwaggon only really got going about 20 years ago. Indeed I understand back in 1976 Global Cooling was quite a popular theory amongst some scientists.
What bugs me now is that International Climate Change meetings now come and go with little said about it to the averae Joe Public via the popular media and particularly TV except in confirming the essentialness of avoiding it.
I'm confused though because although there seem to be one big ICC meeting every year (attended by lots of delegates in different countries) that isn't all of what's going on between times there seems to be at least another annual meeting (held in other different countries) deciding what the annual meeting will be about. Furthermore as the years go by the ICC meetings agree about less and less - indeed they disagree about things supposedly agreed at previous meetings.
No wonder these meetings are not satisfactorily reported to the UK general public.
Best of luck from Cliff
Cliff
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Climate Change - Global Warming PART 3

Post by Cliff »

Dear al(L)
Part 3
"New Scientist" mag confirms that the 18th annual climate change meeting was held a Doha, Quatar - ending up in apparent victory for developing nations (Me - whatever victory is\was), but developed nations are barely any nearer to facing responsibilities (Me- whatever they might be ?).
But good news RICH Countries concede need tp help poor - with climate changer now "almost" inevitable (Me - thinking its not almost it IS !)However, whatever was supposedly agreed it was only in principle. Apparently at Bali (2007) a binding agreement established a treaty by 2009 but that was broken at Copenhagen (in 2009)when the summit collapsed (ME incidentally I recall reading somewhere that Copenhagen meeting involve more than 200 thosand people ?????
I don't know how many were involved at Dohar ?
Incidentally one retired polititian got mentioned as going to the 2011 Durban meeting because he was missing attending his political pary's annual conference - what he did at Durban I don't know and don't know if he went on the Doha "jolly".
Anyway Doha recently put the previous agreement to help poor countries on the back burner.
Apparently recently the UK Energy Minister has said he would have liked more done but we have to live in a real World.
Confused.bum - well I am !
Just to make things simpler the annual ICC meetings seem to be interspersed by at least one annual preparatory meeting held somewhere else as well - why bother with these extra meetings when what was agreed at previous "proper" meetings often gets overturned anyway,
Whatever, it's always nice to find out where the IPCCC meetings are held.
One thing about our climate change problems they give our government plenty of scope for increasing taxation and hiding where the money gets spent !!
Best wishes from Cliff
Paul Sutherland
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Re: Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by Paul Sutherland »

Cliff, there is no need to set up three separate threads for your contributions about this subject. I've merged them into all into this first one.

Cheers,

Paul
brian livesey
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Re: Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by brian livesey »

Look on the bright side Cliff. As the UK climate warms up, you'll be able to grow bananas in your own back garden. :wink: Seriously, humanity sometimes has to find its way through suffering.
Global warming will probably continue until the social and economic pain of not dealing with it forces a fundamental reorganisation of society.
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Cliff
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Re: Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by Cliff »

Dear Paul
Many thanks for your help !
My problem is that all too often in the past I experienced "time outs" and lost long winded posts. I know on occasion you have explained you have explained how to avoid that problem but I failed to do it. It's only recently I "discovered" how to upload images to the forum. It is actually fairly easy even by my standards - even so if I want to upload say 3 images related to a single post, I often experience glitches whereby one of the three images doesn't appear, other times an image thought hadn't uploaded appears twice.
Just to boost my confidence in computers this Dell Win7 laptop purchased 18 months ago has broken twice. The hard drive crashed after 9 months and the screen went haywire a couple of months back. To be fair on Dell they repaired it promptly both times. On the other hand i've got an XP computer that's been upgraded several times. I cann't remember for sure but I think it's more than 8 years old.
Best wishes for Christmas from Cliff
PS I'm sorry to bang on about Global Warming\Climate Change but I think the British public need to be better informed about things.
Cliff
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Re: Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by Cliff »

Dear BrianL
looking on the bright side, I watched a bit of BBC TV coverage of the 2012 Singapore Grand Prix a few months ago - the BBC presenter announced that the race being held at night the circuit was lit 5 times brighter than any sports stadiums - off-hand I don't know the size of the Singapore circuit but I'll guess say 4 to 6 miles. I recall once reading an account of a pre WW2 Mille Milliglia a very long open road car race in Italy. Apparently at night Nuvolari turned off his car lights and sneaked up on the race leader.
It seems to only get more and more depressing about global warming\climate change. Only recenltly I saw a UK politician interviewed on TV.
Apparently he's chairman of one of these numerous parliamentary committees - I cann't remember which committee but it seemed to be related to eco\environmental issues. However, towards the end of the TV discussion the TV presenter asked the politician, since he is personally involved in a private company which does eco\environmental work did he really think he is a suitable person to chair or be on such a related parliamentary committee. His response was yes because he had been interested in environmentally related issues for 20 years.
I subsequently did a bit of basic research and apparently the polititian in question is actually chairman of 2 apparenrly eco\environmentally related companies and Non executive chairman of 2 others, he and his wife are sole directors of 3 other companies and he is also director in another "energy" company. I cann't help wondering if and how much UK subsidies might be going to them ?
Best wishes from Cliff
brian livesey
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Re: Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by brian livesey »

There are many conflicting vested interests that hold back the level of international co-operation that's needed to deal with the problem.
As you are aware Cliff, global warming isn't the only major environmental threat our society faces. There's also acidification of the oceans and an ongoing mass extinction of flora and fauna.
It's unlikely that we'll live long enough to experience the worst effects of these of destructive processes, but our grandchildren could be in for a rough ride.
brian
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Re: Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by Eclipse »

Ever since the earth formed its climate has ALWAYS been changing. The question is what is causing this change - is it anything at all to do with CO2 levels or do changes in CO2 levels actually follow changes in climate rather than cause them, as some climatologists believe to be the case.
And what is the MOST important greenhouse gas?
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Re: Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by joe »

Eclipse wrote: is it anything at all to do with CO2 levels
Most scientists believe it is.
Eclipse wrote: do changes in CO2 levels actually follow changes in climate rather than cause them, as some climatologists believe to be the case.
Most believe that it is the latter.

Unless you have evidence to the contrary.
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brian livesey
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Re: Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by brian livesey »

Volcanoes pour huge amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere as part of the carbon cycle that's essential to life, but human activity is adding
CO2 to the atmosphere at a faster rate than natural processes can absorb it.
brian
Eclipse
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Re: Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by Eclipse »

As no one here seems to have any idea - the MOST IMPORTANT greenhouse gas is WATER VAPOUR. Because of the water vapour in the atmosphere, the Earth´s mean temperature is maintained PRESENTLY at +15C. Take out the water vapour and it drops to -15C - which has happened in the past - when the entire planet has become an ice ball. Arguing about a few ppm of CO2 becomes insignificant.
But I dare say the global warming panickers (who never actually seem to give up their OWN cars) will just keep panicking - and tell us woe, woe and thrice woe (apologies to the late Frankie Howerd!).
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brian livesey
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Re: Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by brian livesey »

You asked for the most potent greenhouse gas. I'm no expert, but is water vapour really a "gas"? I thought it was an aerosol consisting of water droplets.
CO2 might not be a problem in itself, but, as I understand it, when the temperature reaches a certain level due to atmospheric CO2, there's a runaway effect whereby the methane hydrates in the oceans boil off, As a greenhouse gas, methane is said to be some 10,000 more effective than CO2.
brian
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Re: Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by joe »

Eclipse wrote:But I dare say the global warming panickers (who never actually seem to give up their OWN cars) will just keep panicking
It would be appreciated if any discussion on global warming is free of petty name calling, otherwise I'll lock the topic. We've been down this road before. No more warnings.
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Re: Climate Change - Global Warming CC-GW PART 1

Post by Tetenterre »

Reasonably honest attempt made to summarise the current situation in this Economist article.

One bit made me raise my eyebrows:
This study has not been peer-reviewed; it may be unreliable.
As if the peer-reviewed stuff (e.g. Mann's "hockey stick") has been a reliable predictor! Coupled with this stuff (yes, I know this is weather, not climate, but there is a relationship!) it really makes me wonder if anyone, anywhere, will ever be able to make reliable, specific, non-trivial predictions about weather or climate. The "it may get wetter or it may get drier" is uncannily like the snake-oil tout saying "your symptoms will get better, but may initially get worse."
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