The Multiverse

The non amateur stuff. Hawking, black holes, that sort of thing

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brian livesey
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Re: The Multiverse

Post by brian livesey »

Consider this Cliff, that the idea of the Multiverse satisfies the anthropic principle. It's been argued that if there's only one universe, the probability of it being suitable for life is statistically nil, or thereabouts.
On the other hand, if there are numerous universes, the chances of a life-sustaining :D universe existing are correspondingly higher.
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Cliff
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Re: The Multiverse

Post by Cliff »

Dear Brian
You make an interesting point.
However, me being in anti-mathematical mood. I'll suggest that just because statistically if there is only one universe (which of course according to me is likely) life could not have occurred. But according to my theory (sorry hypothesis) what happened in practice is life defied statistics and occurred by shear fluke out of the blue.
Best wishes from Cliff
PS according to the latest Astronomy Now magazine, gravitational waves have now been detected - fantastic news because the equipment used to make the discovery had only recently been brought into use and hardly been properly tested.
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Re: The Multiverse

Post by brian livesey »

Biologists would disagree with you Cliff, that life on our planet appeared as "a fluke out of the blue". Events have a definite history and so does the origin of life.
Consider this, if mind didn't exist to comprehend the Universe, for all practical purposes the Universe wouldn't exist. Who would verify its existence?
It's the same with vision. Visible things are only visible because there are eyes to see them. It takes two to tango. :D
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Re: The Multiverse

Post by Cliff »

Dear Brian
I cannot justify, in 'proper' scientific terms, my personal stance about our universe. Its just my own personal conjecture. However, I am sceptical about sciences ability to properly understand the universe. If I remember correctly when I first became interested in astronomy I don't recall anybody talking about multiverses. I grew up thinking that the universe is everything. My simplistic universe being infinitely big was (and still is) big enough for me.
My wife & I have a Son, he got married & they have given us two Grandchildren. Biologists even with the help of other scientists cannot create life in their test tubes. Although, who knows they might sometime in the future.
Late in his life my Dad said to me "What is it all about?"
I didn't answer him because I didn't know the answer, although I thought I knew what he was asking. He never pushed me for an answer.
There is some talk about some sort of artificial life being created in the near future (eg using computer components etc).
I am fairly content to think that 'my' little universe which is only infinitely big in size is as big as any multiverse.
Best wishes from Cliff
PS although I think I recall what we call 'spiral galaxies' one time being referred to as 'island universes' ?
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Re: The Multiverse

Post by brian livesey »

I don't have a problem with the hypothesis/theory of the Multiverse Cliff, if we regard it as the sum total of all existing sub-universes.
What does seem barmy is to suggest that many sub-universes contain replicates of ourselves, living different lives. There's no evidence to show that nature acts in this way.
The appeal of exploring the Universe, visually and mathematically, is surely that it's the ultimate voyage of discovery. It's like standing on the prow of the Argo, we never know what we might encounter next. :wink:
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Re: The Multiverse

Post by Cliff »

Dear Brian
PART 1
I'm happy with my universe, Universe, or UNIVERSE, which being pretty big could easily contain a few or even countless multiverses - although I never saw any (at least not knowingly) using my old 8 inch telescope.
Whatever, New Scientist mag 2nd April - "Smash & Grab" article by Stuart Clark, makes me feel better about not taking things professional cosmologists tell us for granted eg according to Justin Khoury, Dark Matter might be a billion times lighter than current models say.
I have only limited mathematical knowledge (a stone age HNC in civil engineering , just scraping through maths (including basic calculus). Even so I'm a big fan of Relativity. although I eventually tried to "master" Einstein but by then my limited maths was very rusty and I felt past learning Vector Calculus.
I'm currently slowly reading "The Quantum Universe, everything that can happen does happen" by Prof Forshaw & Prof Cox. I'm not converted yet but it's quite interesting. But who knows - when I do finish reading it, I might think Quantum science is fantastic, or a load of rubbish like some cosmology ?
Best wishes from Cliff. PS Part 2 to follow
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Re: The Multiverse

Post by Cliff »

Dear Brian
Part 2
If I recall correctly James Lovelock (of Gaia fame) suggested that given enough time, the odd billion years or two, he's not surprised life occurred on Earth, probably after a series of amazing but quite "natural" chemical reactions. Lovelock even seems fairly optimistic about humankind's future. Tall rise cities with controlled artificial environments catering for (stupidly) large populations, even if surrounding "rural areas have uncomfortable climates, caused by Global Warming.
Although I doubt living in a Tall Rise earth city would suit me, even with no charges to use lifts. (and I gather a Gulf State with very tall buildings has been having fire problems lately).
So a Tall city life on earth might encourage me to apply to go to Mars, particularly if OAP concessionary fares are available. Although all safe Martian cave dwelling accommodation might be snapped up by unscrupulous landlords.
Best wishes from Cliff PS Part 3 may follow.
As for Copernican theory - I've read that he was well aware that long before him an ancient Greek postulated the Sun centred system but never acknowledge it.
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Re: The Multiverse

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As Arthur Koestler said ( "The Sleepwalkers" ), Copernicus was walking in the footsteps of Aristarchus.
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Re: The Multiverse

Post by Cliff »

Dear Brian
Aristarchus & Kepler are two of my heroes - but NOT Copernicus.
Part 3
I found M31 in the night sky when I was a boy (not much light pollution then). I felt very excited but a bit disappointed my astronomy book suggested the furthest object I'd seen was "only" nearly a million light years away. Even so it remained my furthest object for many years, but meanwhile I read it was not even just one but a good Two million light years away, making me very happy.
Then in the 1980s someone "invented" inflation. After that I seemed to get more & more uncomfortable with modern cosmology, and happier with my own simpler UNIVERSE.
Perhaps I've been burying my head in the sand but I don't need Dark Matter & Dark Energy.
However, I have been a fan of MOND for several years.
Best wishes from Cliff
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Re: The Multiverse

Post by brian livesey »

In the BBC TV programme "The beginning and the end of the Universe" shown last week, where we saw theoretical physicist Jim Al Kalhili striding across vast existential landscapes in search of the reassuring comfort of a coffee bar, we were shown an actual image of dark matter revealed by radio astronomy. So, the stuff Cliff does evidently exist.
As for dark energy ... .
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Re: The Multiverse

Post by Cliff »

Dear Brian
Thanks !
I didn't watch the TV 'beginning & end of the universe' programme last week, but I did go to a coffee bar. I had a cappuccino, but my son just had a black coffee - probably the nearest thing I saw to dark matter.
Best wishes from Cliff
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Re: The Multiverse

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Radio interferometry was used Cliff to reveal the dark matter. A number of radio dishes around the world, including our Jodrell bank, were used to get the image. :wink:
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Re: The Multiverse

Post by Cliff »

Dear Brian
If Dark Matter has been definitely found as I think the TV programme apparently seemed to say I'm a bit surprised more hasn't been mentioned about it elsewhere. Amongst other things if Jodrell Bank was involved I'm surprised the discovery hasn't been highlighted on BBC TV North West news bulletins. Understandably BBC NW TV like to plug Jodrell Bank & I think recall it being mentioned a couple of occasions in the last few weeks but not about DM. Of course it is possible I've missed such an announcement but I would expected it to get very widespread broadcast coverage.
Best wishes from Cliff
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Re: The Multiverse

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Jim Al Kahlili showed us a red glow on our screens, saying "this is dark matter". He said that the image was obtained by linking several large radio telescopes across the globe, centred on Jodrell Bank.
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Re: The Multiverse

Post by Cliff »

Dear Brian
Apparently there's a 'new telescope' (I've forgotten its name, not LIGO, but I think its abbreviated title might begin with "L") due to come into use about 2022 (?), which will probably\definitely discover dark matter!
I'm not holding my breath though, me being in no great hurry myself for 2022 to arrive.
Perhaps I'm being too much of a pessimist but I sometimes wonder if science might be progressing by a series of half-proven discoveries, which after a time collectively become accepted.
I do like Prof (I think?)Jim Kalhili and he obviously knows a lot more about cosmology than me,of course.
Best wishes from Cliff
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